I have been thinking about last Saturday nights racing, and want to put foward some new rules for next year or maybe added to this year..
1, Your cars to be entered prior to racing for all classes.
2, The car that you entered is the car that you run, if it breaks or isnt going as good as others it cant be changed.
3, If the car breaks down mid race either fix it or retire..that is the car you choose to run, stick with it. Some dont have the luxury of grabbing another out of the box and continuing the race. I am guilty of this, but after Saturday night and 1 members car failing and choosing not to run another car I see this differantly now. There is no motorsport were if you breakdown you go to the trailer and grab car 2...
4, Scrutineering?? it is in the rules.
5, Run your own car.
Lets make it fair for ALL members...
And my 2c
We all know the classes for the years racing and have plenty of time to source the cars/parts we need to get through the year.
I dont wish to offend anyone
-- Edited by Scrivo on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 08:39:19 AM
-- Edited by Scrivo on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 08:40:56 AM
-- Edited by Scrivo on Tuesday 23rd of June 2009 11:38:31 AM
Firstly , this is not intended to point the finger at anyone or cause any grief amongst us , I have definitly done this myself !! so its not so much of an issue Shane , just observations , that seem to be more prevalant to Dandenong's kingleman and other fast flowing tracks (mine ?)where out right speed is essential and cars are more prone to break downs , ie car isn't quite up to speed/stripped a gear or 2 , so go borrow one that is up to speed or running to full potential (not broken down).
to keep things out in the open , Dave and I have communicated about this and other thoughts in regards to possible amendments for next year ,other relevant subjects will be brougt into discusion in appropriate threads.
please feel free to make comments in regards to "Car Breakdowns"
Just to place a historical note in this, up until now my understanding was that you were able to
1. Repair the current car and resume racing.
2. Swap cars if you had a terminal breakdown for the next heat. (obviously a DNF for the current heat).
I certainly would of not thought it fair to swap a car just because it wasnt performing right, thats what the practice sessions are for prior to racing.
One otherthing I would like you to bare in mind while discussing this is that people travel from all over the place to enjoy this hobby and the prospect of a car dying in the first heat on a track such as the kingleman with 8 lanes the prospect of sitting out the next 7 heats would be more than annoying.
This will go to a vote at a suitable point in time and the outcome ammended to the rules to remove any ambiguity (damn thats a a hard word at 7am) from the rules.
-- Edited by Rob on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 07:08:54 AM
As Matt has mentioned above, this is not about pointing the finger as you will notice in my first post i clearly mention " i'am guilty of this".
Its the fact that if someones car breaks etc some dont have the choice of getting car b out of the box. Eg, i had 2 nascars on Saturday night 1 with 42b and the other pro turbo, if my 42 b shat it self i would not have been able to continue...were as someone else has 3 eligble cars in there box can continue...see my point? I know for a fact that Glenn had 1 lmp car for the night and it stripped a gear, if i had not loaned him my Porsche he would have been out of the event,then i thought after the fact and Matt not continuing on i seen car loaning in a differant light..whilst i am willing (as we all are)to help anyone fix there car to the best of our abbility, if they cant be fixed easily enough then so be it.
Dave, I dont believe I made any reference to fingerpointing by anyone. Just like you only expressing a point of view/understanding. I also dont have a collection of cars that some have and understand the sentiment of your statements.
All I'm doing is pointing out where things are at now, change is welcome if it's with agreement from the majority of the group.
Dave, I dont believe I made any reference to fingerpointing by anyone. Just like you only expressing a point of view/understanding. I also dont have a collection of cars that some have and understand the sentiment of your statements.
All I'm doing is pointing out where things are at now, change is welcome if it's with agreement from the majority of the group.
No i know that Rob, i was just making it clear to the members as i didnt say i wasnt pointing the finger in my opening post.
cheers
-- Edited by Scrivo on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 01:48:47 PM
Just to place a historical note in this, up until now my understanding was that you were able to
1. Repair the current car and resume racing.
2. Swap cars if you had a terminal breakdown for the next heat. (obviously a DNF for the current heat).
I certainly would of not thought it fair to swap a car just because it wasnt performing right, thats what the practice sessions are for prior to racing.
One otherthing I would like you to bare in mind while discussing this is that people travel from all over the place to enjoy this hobby and the prospect of a car dying in the first heat on a track such as the kingleman with 8 lanes the prospect of sitting out the next 7 heats would be more than annoying.
-- Edited by Rob on Wednesday 24th of June 2009 07:08:54 AM
Agre with you Rob, I for one would be pissed off if car "A" s**t itself in heat 1 and next 7 heats I had to sit out while car "B" gathered dust. On the otherhand, if I didn't have B option on saturday night I probably could have won the LMP class. All I had to do was tighten the grub screw on the crown and it was back to track
Me pulling out of thr LMP race was not only due to my car breaking down but also out of frustration , having run both my LMP car at home for proof testing (100's of laps) they fail in the heat of battle ..........................thats not even mentioning my 60/70's effort !!!
I certainly agree with travel/race time thoery , I for one would not enjoy traveling for an hour or 2 , and only completing a couple of laps .................................crash and burn anyone ?
but should we stress to try and fix it first , then replace if its beyond repair ??
sax0607 wrote:but should we stress to try and fix it first , then replace if its beyond repair ??
Matt, That's pretty much the way I see it, as I said it has to be terminal to be replaced. A poor performer doesn't warrant replacement . It provides incentive to sort it out before racing or between heats.
sax0607 wrote:but should we stress to try and fix it first , then replace if its beyond repair ??
Matt, That's pretty much the way I see it, as I said it has to be terminal to be replaced. A poor performer doesn't warrant replacement . It provides incentive to sort it out before racing or between heats.
Okay fellas. As I wasn't there on Saturday night and wasn't privvy to what happened I'll give my 2c worth regardless.
It's my view that to participate in a fair way, we do so in an honest way.
If you have a car that is simply not running as good as the rest, bad luck. If the car is drivable, but not up to speed, that's my own, I mean your own fault!
A car should only be replaced by one out of your box that you have prepared as a back up, if you don't have a back up... you sit it out. I have graciously accepted a 'loan car' during previous heats and no-one has said anything. I think it comes down to us just wanting to have a fun arvo where everyone can compete... and there's nothing wrong with that. But it seems that whatever happened last round has ruffled some feathers... so it needs to be sorted so that we don't start bitching with eachother and ruining what we've got.
#1 rule (as Aastes stated...) Have fun!
If a car dies in the early heats and a loaner is granted... should the results be void? We can all still compete, the long distance drivers aren't marshalling all night and fun is still had.
We aren't all such bad drivers that we're gunna take cars out and spoil the points getters during racing, are we?
That's pretty much the way I see it, as I said it has to be terminal to be replaced. A poor performer doesn't warrant replacement . It provides incentive to sort it out before racing or between heats.
Just to place a historical note in this, up until now my understanding was that you were able to
1. Repair the current car and resume racing.
2. Swap cars if you had a terminal breakdown for the next heat. (obviously a DNF for the current heat).
This was my understanding of what happens but I cannot find it written down anywhere, maybe it was a carry over from what used to happen at Geds and as such hasn't been communicated to the newer members as it is not in the rules.
Although Number 2 seems to get forgotten in the heat of battle.
I usually try to have at least 2 cars, sometimes more, for this exact reason. Including my own car I had 3 Nascars on track on Sat and it almost cost me 2nd spot, but it is better to have guys on track racing, and if Dave hadn't lent a Le Mans car to Glenn I was going to.
Just to place a historical note in this, up until now my understanding was that you were able to
1. Repair the current car and resume racing.
2. Swap cars if you had a terminal breakdown for the next heat. (obviously a DNF for the current heat).
This was my understanding of what happens but I cannot find it written down anywhere, maybe it was a carry over from what used to happen at Geds and as such hasn't been communicated to the newer members as it is not in the rules.
Although Number 2 seems to get forgotten in the heat of battle.
I usually try to have at least 2 cars, sometimes more, for this exact reason. Including my own car I had 3 Nascars on track on Sat and it almost cost me 2nd spot, but it is better to have guys on track racing, and if Dave hadn't lent a Le Mans car to Glenn I was going to.
Rule #1 have fun.
yep that was it - musn't be written anwhere. I think the thing we need to (not so much) enforce is : unless it's dead (like my nascar was) you can't change cars and you can only change cars after the current heat
just some late thoughts, we definately have not been as strict this year. I think Vlad was all over the scrutineering and did well last year. With scrutineering i think pick 2 people (who have experience and know the rules) everyone else piss off and leave them alone. If there is an issue discuss with the car owners, and then make an informed decision. give them the opportunity to fix. all scrutineering should be done before we race, cars should then be placed in parc ferme ie dont touch them as for car replacement i think if your car busts during a heat bad luck, but certainly either fix or borrow for the subsequent heats. see you all saturday ( i am off to read the rules )
-- Edited by nomad on Wednesday 8th of July 2009 03:48:35 PM
1.if car breaks down mid heat - and you can fix it (te same car you start the heat with) you can get back on in the heat. If it's not repairable or you decide not to try, you must sit remainder of heat out.
2. You can then race in next heat with 2nd "nominated" car, but if car fails - see step 1
Yes scrutineering has been sloppy this year,I think we all just wanna race. So if you accept: Mark and Nathan to scrutinise all cars prior to this saturdays racing.?
Nominate primary and secondary race cars, test on track, hand to scrutineers and park ferme
, so go borrow one that is up to speed or running to full potential (not broken down).
